tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 12, 2011 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
that's out there, i think "the times" is placed to give it to you true, to present the news in an intelligent way, to provide beautifully written stories that people want that more than ever. but they want it all. and we're giving it -- >> trying to do it. >> we're in the last five seconds. your book, "the puppy diaries," the name of your dog before we go? >> is scow. >> you can buy that book, "the puppy diaries" right now. john king in for anderson cooper and "360" starts right now. >> thanks, erin. we begin keeping them honest. remember the politicians who were condemning the occupy wall street movement, even though they praised the tea party movement for pretty much the same tactics? we talked about it last week here on "360." turns out some of those politicians are dropping their criticism and changing their message.
we're talking about the occupy wall street movement, now in its sixth week in cities across the country. large crowds have taken to the streets in philadelphia and boston and elsewhere. they're protesting income inequality and the lack of jobs. last week, herman cain said those fired up over america's economic troubles had no one to blame but themselves. here's what he told "the wall street journal". >> don't blame wall street. don't blame the big banks. if you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself! >> then this past weekend, cain fired another shot at the protesters on cbs' "face the nation." watch. >> my parents never said that we hope that the rich people lose something so we can get something. no! my dad's idea was, i want to work hard enough so i can buy a cadillac, not take somebody else's. >> but, listen. now cain is tweaking his message and saying the protesters should be blaming someone. the wohite house. here's what he said last night during the bloomberg/"washington post" gop debate. >> that response was directed at
the people that are protesting on wall street, not that 14 million people who are out of work for no reason of their own, other than the economy's not growing. not the millions of people that are underemployed. basically targeted the wrong target. it should be against the failed policies of this administration, not wall street, is where they should be protesting. >> herman cain is not the only presidential hopeful changing his message. so is the former massachusetts governor, mitt romney. last week on the campaign trail in florida, romney said this about the occupy wall street movement. "i think it's dangerous, this class warfare." but monday, romney sounded much different when meeting with voters in new hampshire. >> i don't worry about the top 1%. i don't -- nice worrying about, gee, we need to help them. i don't worry about that. they're doing just fine by themselves. i worry about the 99% in america. i want america once again to be the best place in the world to be middle class. i want to have a strong and vibrant and prosperous middle
class. and so, i like at what's happening on wall street, and my own view is, boy, i understand how those people feel. >> you got that? romney saying he now understands how the protesters feel. no more talk of class warfare. he even used a key phrase at the occupy wall street movement. they refer to themselves as the 99%. now to a key republic on capitol hill, eric cantor. here's what he said about the wall street protesters last week at the values voters summit. >> i, for one, am increasingly concerned about the growing mobs occupying wall street and the other cities across the country. >> then yesterday in his weekly briefing with the media, cantor changed his message dramatically. gone was his reference to so-called mobs. he told reporters, "people are upset and they're justifiably frustrated. they're out of work. the economy is not moving. their sense of security for the future is not clear at all. people are afraid and i get it."
then he added, "when we have elected leaders stirring the pot, if you will, that's not good." elected officials stirring the pot. that's not good. well, does that apply to himself and others? i talked about it just a short time ago with cnn contributor erick erickson, who's editor and chief of redstate.com, and jeffrey sachs, the author of "the price of civilization." so, erick, we're beginning to see a softening when it comes to the demonstrators. let's see if you want to re-do here. you've called them quote, whiners, hipsters, hippies, dirty urban hipsters, senior citizens who never grow up, and college trust funders. stand by all that? >> absolutely. >> absolutely. in a word. so why, then, if you stand by it absolutely, why are some leading republicans, you see it in the presidential candidates, you see it in the congressional leadership, softening in rhetoric, getting a bit more moderate, in some cases, even a
bit more supportive? >> because, you know, part of it has to do with mitt romney. mitt romney is the wall street guy. and there are some guys, the ron paul supporters and others, who are out there with the guys on wall street, and so they're trying to pit themselves against mitt romney and say mitt romney can't tap into this populous movement that's going out there right now. if mitt romney weren't in the race, you probably wouldn't see them backing off it. >> why do you say absolutely? why a one-word answer. no second thoughts. they're citizens demonstrating their rights, no? >> well, yeah, they're citizens demonstrating their rights, but what are they demonstrating? there's not a whole lot of coherence, but what is coherent out there is that somehow greed and they're envious of the 1% and those people are bad and we should take tho them and give t others. this is 1960s communism in this year's college kids. >> you staunchly support these
demonstrators. the rhetoric from the conservative side has been cooling a bit. you still hear criticism, though. what are they up to? this is divisive. they're hurting the economy. maybe it's misguided. how do you respond? >> i think when they say that "we are the 99%," they're speaking for a great many americans who feel that the system is unfair and that the system has been rigged. and when they look at what's happening on wall street, they see companies that have paid bonuses of tens of billions of dollars to senior management, and then drove the economy, both the u.s. and the world economy, absolutely into the ditch. and then they saw those bonuses that paid afterwards with u.s. taxpayer bailout money. and then they saw these firms pay huge fines for their financial misdeeds. our marquee firms, goldman sachs, jpmorgan, merrill lynch. and they're saying, what kind of system is this, where these firms break the rules, require
massive taxpayer bailouts, and yet they pay themselves gargantuan, virtually, unbelievable, unimaginable sums for compensation. that's not america. and i think that they are finding a resonance all through this country. >> and one of the questions, erick, might there be a double standard applied from the right, since most of these demonstrators are liberals? you wrote on redstate.com about these protesters. "maybe instead of playing class warfare, you people should grow up and get a job." i was having conversations with you not all that long ago, you were one of the loudest voices saying, stop criticizing, deponent dismiss the fetea partyers and don't paint them with a broad brush. fair? >> i would say so. the tea party movement was largely about getting government out of their lives. what these people seem to be about is getting government more vested in our lives and getting government to punish people who
they can they are unjust. there's a lot of talk about greed in this occupy wall street movement. but the people who are occupying, they want to trade one form of greed, that of money and the acquisition of wealth for another form of fwreed, power for themselves to the decide who should be the winners and losers instead of letting the free market do it. >> erick, how can you still even use these terms after trillions of dollars of cash going from the fed to wall street at zero interest rates to t.a.r.p. and the bailout, and you call this the free market. what are you talking about, actually? >> well, you know, jeffrey, i'll tell you. i think largely it is because the policies that folks are out there occupying wall street right now have advocated in the past more government intervention has caused these things. the government should never have gone in as far as they did. the government should have never gone in with things like sarbanes-oxley. the government should not have gone in -- the government should not gone with a lot of regulations. >> listen to what they're saying. they're saying that the system is rigged, that this has been
gamed, that these banks were bailed out by actually both political parties. >> i opposed the bailouts as well. we should have let the banks fail, actually, and let new banks spring up from them. >> well, what they're saying is that this is a rigged system that has helped the people at the very top, not helped the rest of society. >> all right, gentleman, we'll end this here right now. erick, jeffrey, i'm going to call it a truce right here. gentleman, thanks both for coming in tonight. as we can see, some of the rhetoric's cooling. not all of it. thank you. and so let us know what you think. we're on facebook or follow me on twitter @johnkingcnn. up next, mitt romney's on a roll, but not the front-runner in a new poll. and this man is accused of killing saudi arabia's ambassador to the united states. iran is rejecting any ties to the suspected scheme. but iran is accused of another bizarre plot right here on u.s. soil, targeting a u.s. citizen. details ahead. first, let's check in with
isha sesay. >> damaging testimony against dr. conrad murray, and medical experts for california's medical board lays out what he says are six examples of gross negligence by murray. that and more when "360" continues. dose. citracal slow release... continuously releases calcium plus d for the efficient absorption my body needs. citracal. i'm a wife, i'm a mom... and chantix worked for me. it's a medication i could take and still smoke, while it built up in my system. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix is proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these, stop taking chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic
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raw politics tonight. there's a possible new front-runner in the republican battle for the white house. a new nbc/"wall street journal" poll gives the edge now to herman cain, with 27% backing him. mitt romney follows close behind with 23%. texas governor rick perry third now with support from 16% of republican voters surveyed. the poll isn't all bad news for romney, though. nbc and "the wall street journal" also find romney remains the strongest candidate in a head-to-head matchup with president obama, trailing him by just two percentage points. well, tonight, president obama's re-election campaign is taking notice, trying to slow romney's momentum. the days of team obama praising the massachusetts governor for his health care reform are likely over. the tone is changing. today the obama campaign fired back at romney for this comment he made during last night's bloomberg/"washington post" debate. >> the right course for america is not to keep spending money on stimulus bills, but instead to
make permanent changes to the tax code. look, when you give -- as the president's bill does, when you give a temporary change to the payroll tax and say we're going to extend this for a year or two, employers don't hire people for a year or two. >> the obama campaign claims romney keeps changing his message on taxes. they're labeling him a political flip-flopper. in a conference call today, david axelrod went on the attack. >> it is a pattern time and time and time again. and you heard it again last night. and it's consistent with a guy who ran for the -- who ran for the governorship of massachusetts and ran for the senate in massachusetts, as a pro-choice moderate who supported civil unions and who supported environment al protections and so on, to the
guy you see today, who is hard after that tea party vote and has thrown all of his positions -- all of his positions over." >> david axelrod didn't stop there. listen to this. >> the question of trust is important, and particularly for the middle class, at a time when people are struggling and have been for some time. they want to know that where the president was yesterday is where he'll be today is where he'll be tomorrow, and that the commitments that he makes are ones that they can count on, and it's hardly the case when you're all over the lot, as governor romney was last night, has been through this campaign, has, in fact, been throughout his career. >> safe to say team obama on the offensive. joining me now, ari fleischer, cnn contributor and the former press secretary for president george w. bush. also bill burton, a democratic strategist who also has plenty of time working in the white house press room. he's former obama's former deputy press secretary.
gentleman, good to see you. ari, let's start with these "wall street journal" poll numbers. how much of a surprise, do you view this as herman cain really taking off to the top of the pack? should romney be concerned? >> i think it continues to show how fluid and open the republican race is. i've been saying for months that nobody has a firm foundation underneath them and i think that's what this poll is showing. my advice to republicans and any other political observers is read political polls the way you should look at the stock market. don't look at it every day, look at it about once a month, because it's way too volatile and open on the republican side still. but good for herman cain, he's really caught on. >> good for herman cain, he has caught on. and bill, ari makes a good point, it's early, and these are national polls. we'll get to iowa and new hampshire about 80 days from now. but when you look at this from the democratic perspective, do you like the volatility in the republican race? do you think it helps you? >> what's interesting for me is the lack of volatility there's been for mitt romney.
you've seen other candidates promoted like mitch daniels or chris christie, you've seen those go up and down like rick perry. one thing that's constant is romney and him being the nominee. even though perry's rise has been up and down, that went to mitt romney. he's been running for president for five years. his support has flatlined, miss money is behind where he was around last time around. and in key states like iowa and nevada, he's actually behind where he was, at this point in the campaign, four years ago. >> and jed, ari fleischer, bill burton says there must be something for the romney people to worry about, but must also be something for the obama people to worry about. senior campaign adviser going negative on romney. what do you make about that strategy? a conference call solely dedicated to trying to rip apart mitt romney. >> traditionally presidents don't go after all the potential
opponents in an upcoming primary, because they want to save their fire, and they're busy governing. i find it an interesting development in politics, that obama's allowed the staff -- they've gone after huntsman, after perry, after romney. it seems they really want to play a hand in this primary. and i suspect the reason he doesn't have a strong enough record to run, given unemployment, the deficit, and the economic troubles of our country. when you're a president and you can't run on what you've done, you attack anybody you can find. and i think they're trying to undermine whoever the eventual republican nominee is going to be. >> and bill, you say romney seems to have this ceiling and republicans are looking around, he can't get up higher, but by attacking him, looking at anybody but romney, aren't you possibly helping romney? white conservatives say, the obama people are after me, therefore they must view romney as the strongest guy? >> two things here. for starters, i think it's very hard for democrats to have too big of an impact on trm primary.
republican voters aren't looking to president obama and to david axelrod and democrats to get a sense of who they ought to support. and mitt romney very well may end up the republican nominee, but it's not because he's like their greatest choice, it's because they've exhausted all of their options. and the second point here is the phenomenal thing that ari fleischer just had to say about how presidents who don't have a very good record to run on start to attack their opponents, because i actually recall not -- right about this time in 2003 when president bush was running for re-election, they telegraphed a strategy in which they would go after the democratic nominee. and i remember karen hughes and other bush surrogates going after the democratic candidates whenever they opened their mouths on things that had to do with iraq or the war against terrorists, all over the world. so, you know, let's consider history here before we start saying that we're breaking new ground on the democratic side. >> you're making the point, what goes around comes around.
some of this is cyclical. ari, the polls do show consistently -- it's early, but romney has the best head-to-head numbers against obama. does that help republicans who are thinking, we're going to beat this guy? >> there are going to be two major factors. do republicans like the people who's going to be the nominee? do they ideologically agree with that person? but electability is also a slice of decision-making pie. and if a candidate cannot look like heir going to beat barack obama, i think that's going to be filtered into the judgment that a voter makes. let me go back to bill's earlier point. bill's right about the timing of that. everybody does make an issue of who their opponent is. that's the way politics works in this country, and there's nothing wrong that. but it's just the timing. i don't remember the bush people doing that in 2003. they waited later into 2004 when there was a known nominee. barack obama is entitled to this strategy. everybody can change how politics works. it's just a surprise to me that it looks like they'll go after
as many as they can. one final point, if i were president obama, i would be very careful going after mitt romney on his flip-flops, indeed, he did change his rights on gay rights and abortion. but barack obama has so many more of those on his own. when he was a senator, he voted against raising the debt limit and then he wanted to raise the debt limit. he indicated george bush violated the constitution and now barack obama, of course, is keeping up with indefinite detention, warrantless wiretaps, secret renditions, keeping guantanamo open. so it's not a fruitful area i would go after if i were barack obama. it only opens himself up to similar attacks. >> i think ari's auditioning for the number two spot on the republican ticket there. >> he's got my vote. >> we'll have both of you guys back to fight this out as we go further. chris christie endorsed mitt romney yesterday and tonight another powerful republican came pretty close to doing the same thing. >> i continue to be impressed with mitt romney's performance in these debates. he's cool, calm, collected. he's quick, he's agile.
i think he could do well going up against president obama in the fall. >> he's consistent, isn't he? >> he's very consistent. and very disciplined and all the things you would want in a candidate. other candidates have had moments where they've done extraordinarily well as well. i'm proud of the entire field. >> you can see the rest of that interview with jeb bush next on "piers morgan tonight." and you can see all of the gop candidates tuesday night when anderson hosts the presidential debate live from las vegas, tuesday at 8:00 p.m. eastern, right here on cnn. still ahead, iran fights back. its leaders deny any involvement in the bizarre plot to kill a saudi ambassador. but it's not the first time iran's been accused of masterminding a murder on american soil. and a stunning twist in that triple murder trial in connecticut. the accused killer now blaming the victims for his crimes. the family reaction when "360" continues. , dayquil doesn't treat that. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your runny nose. [ deep breath] awesome.
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deliberations began today in the triple murder trial that began with a home invasion four years ago. joshua komisarjevsky is facing 17 counts, including three counts of murder in the deaths of jennifer hawke-petit and her two daughters, 17-year-old hayley and 11-year-old micaela. komisarjevsky is the second defendant to be tried. hayes was sentenced to death last year. komisarjevsky's lawyer adopted a blame the victim defense, saying if petit hadn't fled and his wife hadn't screamed, no one would have died. >> i guess we were honestly a little perturbed with the closing, with their defense's use of, you know, dr. petit getting out of the basement precipitated things, as if there had been no plan in place for two or three hours or longer prior to that, or that perhaps if hayley petit would have done
things different, things would have turned out different. >> at first, i thought my ears were deceiving me when they said that my brother's actions has precipitated the events of july 23rd. and later on, donovan repeated it in his closing argument, saying they not only precipitated it, but caused it. and they went on to say, had hayley gotten out of her room and climbed out of her window, the events wouldn't have taken place, and if she had gotten out of her room and got into micaela's room, things wouldn't have taken place. that is really stretching. >> that is a bizarre defense strategy, blame dr. petit and his family? >> it actually is. and i think a lot of people in the courtroom were stunned. here you have joshua komisarjevsky and his accomplice, both of these men, two convicted felons out on parole. they hold this family hostage for more than seven hours, torturing them, sexually
molesting an 11-year-old, and then all of a sudden they turn it around and say, gee, if only dr. petit, who we'd tied up and put in the basement and beat in his head, if only he had not broken free to try to get help, we wouldn't have had to light the house on fire. or, gee, if the 17-year-old daughter hayley had actually gotten loose from being tied to the bed and had she escaped out the window, then, gee, you know, maybe she could have helped family. so, really, the defense wants it both ways. their one goal right now, john, is simply to save this man's life. but doing it this way, by being so cruel to the family that was picked at random. you know, one of these guys actually spotting the wife and daughter in the parking lot buying groceries, coming from buying groceries, and then followed her home. it's really a little bit, i think the word that you hear a lot is perverse, john. >> perverse, cruel, bizarre. was it expected at all or did this come out of the blue? >> you know, it's -- the defense has one goal and one goal only. and that is to try to save
joshua komisarjevsky's life. the accomplice is already on death row, and what they are trying to do now is they're trying to really convince the jury that this was simply a home invasion and it went terribly wrong. that as the hours began ticking down, as they were waiting to go to the bank to have this mom withdraw $15,000, that somehow there was tension, they started getting on each other's nerves. but, look, you've got a 90-minute taped confession in which komisarjevsky really lays out the plan, how it happened, how he describes, really, this sexual fixation of an 11-year-old girl, what he was doing. and he blames his accomplice, steven hayes. he says, he's the one who went to the buy the gasoline to light the house on fire. he's the one who said that we had to kill this family to get rid of evidence. and, so, it's, the defense has to try to save his life, and they've got not a lot to work, john. >> bizarre, bizarre, bizarre. deborah feyerick, thank you.
fascinating case. now let's get the latest on other stories we're following. isha sesay joins us. >> a southern california salon became the scene of a deadly shooting spree. three people are dead and one is in critical condition after a gunman opened fire. police there say they have a suspect in custody. a surprise guilty plea today from the so-called underwear bomber. umar abdulmutallab admitted to trying to blow up a flight on christmas day 2009 with an explosive device hidden in his underwear. a man suspected of hacking into the electronic devices of scarlett johansson and mila kunis is underarrest. 35-year-old christopher chaney accessed the accounts of more than 50 people, most of them in the entertainment industry. and billionaire warren buffett is baring all.
he revealed that his gross income last year was nearly $63 million, while his taxable income was just under $40 million. what's more, he was taxed at a rate of only 17.4%. that's because much of his income is from investments and he earns massive deductions for his charitable donations. no matter how you slice it and dice it, john, that's a lot of cash. >> you scared me a little bit with the "bared it all" at the beginning of that. glad it was about the money. >> you're okay. no need to shield your eyes. >> isha, thank. still ahead on "360," new details emerging about that foiled terror plot reportedly backed by the iranian government. we'll tell you about the suspect in another botched assassination plot that seems to point back to iran. and a difficult day in court for dr. conrad murray. we'll tell you what one expert said about the quality of his care for michael jackson. that's when we come back. nothing helped me beat arthritis pain.
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iran lashed out today, claiming allegations of an iranian scheme to kill a saudi ambassador are nothing but a stupid mischief. attempt to shift attentions by making up a plot called amate amateurish. this as iran imposes tough new sanctions that believed to have plied technical support. it's true the twists and turns of this case, involving this man, manssor arbabsiar, and his accomplice and a mexican drug
cartel read like a hollywood script. but this isn't the first time iran has been accused in a bizarre assassination plot. just last year, the american embassy in london warned officials to be on the lookout for a paid assassin. the man claimed to be an agent to have the iranian government. the iranian agent, if that's who he was, was soon arrested. not in england, but right here in the united states, trying to kill an american citizen. here's drew griffin with a cnn special investigation. >> reporter: it's the type of california town you'd dream of. sunny skies, green mountains, palm tree-lined streets. glendo glendora, california, is not the type of town you'd expect paid assassins plotting international killings ordered by a totalitarian regime. but according to this diplomatic cable, published by wikileaks, that is exactly what happened here, a conclusion supported by glendora's police department. would-be killers, a mastermind
and a hired hit man, holed up for four days in a low-budget motel, plotting, stalking, and on the verge of carrying out their elaborate plot. it was july 28th, 2009, the morning the murder was to take place. but the hit man got cold feet, and instead pulled into this gas station, picked up his cell phone, and dialed 911. and an international assassination plot unraveled. >> this person went on to tell us that for the past four days, they, together, had been scheming how to assassinate, how to kill a glendora resident. >> reporter: to say it was a shock to glendora police lieutenant tim staub is an understatement. the man hired to be the hit man offered proof, too. details of a plot involving a cheap van purchased at a local car dealer, to be used accidentally to run down and kill the target. a payoff to his mother overseas
and a wad of $100 bills, suspiciously wrapped. >> they were crisp, new $100 bills, and there was a stack of them. they're all sequentially numbered and around it, they had a bank wrapping around it, and the writing was in farsi. >> reporter: the money had come directly from an iranian bank, and soon lieutenant staub was arresting the mastermind. his name, reza sedegnia, an unemployed house painter from michigan, and the plot was thickening. >> our informant was iranian. the person, the suspect, the mastermind of this assassination attempt, if you will, was also iranian, and those two wanted to kill the glendora resident who not only was iranian, but he hosted an internet talk show in glendale, and just happened to live in glendora. >> reporter: and that led police to the next shock.
the victim. and what the wikileaks cable suggests was the motive. this was an iranian government plot on american soil, to assassinate you. >> exactly. >> reporter: scary? i mean, you're laughing? that seems pretty serious. >> it is serious. this is clear. >> reporter: shamad is an iranian government who opposes the current iranian government. >> let's be clear, your mission, your purpose is to overthrow the regime. >> that's clear. >> reporter: sharmad is the radio voice of a group called tandar. they say they're behind a grassroots movement in iran that has led to massive anti-government protests. the iranian government says tandar is a terrorist organization. any doubt in your mind that the iranian regime was behind this assassination plot? >> no doubt. >> reporter: and that is supported in this, this leaked
diplomatic cable, written from the u.s. embassy in london to the state department in washington. the cable says the alleged master mooint, reza sadeqinia and more. >> the overall plot was to kill you, get you out of the way, and hijack your radio, your television, your movement. >> that is correct. >> after looking at all the information, it sure adds up that the person that we arrested back on july 28th of 2009 was a true bad guy. >> drew griffin joins me now from atlanta. wow, drew, the details man deferent, but the overall arc of this murder for hire plot you described sounds a little familiar to what we heard just yesterday in the government allegations of this saudi incident. >> exactly, you hire a hit man, pay in cash, in this case, with
money that may have came straight from an iranian bank. make sure there are enough layers between the source and the killer so iran could deny any involvement. seems very familiar. >> and the mastermind behind this plot pleaded guilty? still in prison? >> that's where it gets really interesting? reza sadeqinia served eight months, placed on five months' probation, and almost after he got out for some inexplicable reason, he was able to visit his ailing father in iran on the promise he'd come back. john, you know he never came back, no one's seen him since, there's a bench warrant out for his arrest. but shortly after he was freed, iran released a u.s. businessman they were holding. we've tried to talk to the state department, the fbi, even the district attorney in los angeles. nobody's commenting on that. security experts say this looks like a straight-up swap that took place last year. >> huh. does make you suspicious, doesn't it? fascinating reporting, drew. thanks. still ahead here, crime and punishment. damning new testimony today against michael jackson's
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crime and punishment. not an easy day in court for dr. conrad murray. michael jackson's personal physician sat silent at the defense table as an expert witness, a cardiologist, just like dr. murray, blasted the quality of care murray gave jackson in the final hours and minutes of his life. the prosecution witness listed six examples of gross negligence, deviations from
standard medical care, that he believes had tragic results. >> because if these deviations would not have happened, mr. jackson would have been alive. >> the prosecution now down to its final witnesses and today they came out swinging. here's ted rowlands. >> reporter: in a damaging day of testimony against dr. conrad murray, an expert for the california medical board concluded that murray's actions directly caused the death of michael jackson. dr. alon steinberg, a cardiologist hired by the prosecution, called dr. murray's bizarre and listed multiple examples of his extreme de deviations from standard medical care. >> in your opinion, is the use of propofol as a doctor's practice to treat insomnia gross negligence? >> yes. it's indicated for procedures and patient comfort, not for sleep. >> reporter: according to steinberg, not only did murray administer a dangerous drug to jackson, he did it without the
proper equipment. >> first, you need a pulse oximeter with an alarm. dr. murray's machine did not have an alarm. the next thing you need is an ekg monitor. he did not have an ekg monitor. the other things you need is a bag mask or and you need to know how to use it. he had an anvil bag, but he did not use it. >> reporter: another deviation, according to steinberg, murray's failure to call for help immediately. >> it's basic knowledge, in america, you don't have to be a health care professional, that when someone is down, you need to call 911 for help. dr. murray should have known that. so instead of that huge 20-minute delay, i mean, 20-something-minute delay, he could have gotten the help he needed within four minutes. >> murray had told police he was busy trying to resuscitate jackson, which is why he didn't call 911 right away, but
steinberg says murray didn't even follow proper procedures in trying to revive the singer. >> his cpr was poor quality. so he should have put mr. jackson on the floor and done cpr on the floor with two hands. >> reporter: previously, the jury heard a two-hour recording of a police interview with murray. on the tape, murray described monitoring jackson after giving him propofol, until he felt comfortable enough to leave the room. murray said he was only gone for two minutes. >> when you monitor a patient, you never leave their side. especially after giving propofol. it's like leaving a baby that's sleeping on your kitchen countertop. >> reporter: the defense now says they'll drop their theory that jackson had swallowed extra propofol without murray's knowledge. instead, they will argue that jackson administered the fatal dose himself through a syringe.
a sleep expert also testified and said that murray's use of propofol to treat insomnia was, quote, unusual and dangerous. the prosecution is wrapping up their case. they're expected to get to their final witness at some point tomorrow. ted rowlands, cnn, los angeles. >> joining me now, criminal defense attorney, mark geragos. he once represented michael jackson. mark, pretty damaging testimony there. not one, but six examples of deviations, gross negligence, the doctor said. how does the defense counter that? >> well, this is, i think -- i said early on, before the trial even started, this is the elephant in the room. this is, how do you get over the question of, is it such a gross deviation from the standard of care to give propofol in a house setting, so to speak? that's what they had to get through. that's what they're going to have to fight with. the defense is going to argue that even if he deviated from the standard of care, that did not cause michael jackson's death. and they're going to rely on a jury instruction that says, if
something else intervened, if there was some other cause that was unforeseen, then, therefore, he is not guilty. they're going to argue that the other drugs that he had been shopping, that michael was shopping around for, that michael was ingesting, are what caused that lethal combination and caused the death. that's one of the reasons that you saw the defense today fine-tune, some would say, others would say, scrap their theory on whether he ingested it or not. >> well, in scrapping that or fine-tuning it, you choose your words, they're saying now, they're not going to say that he orally ingested it, they're going to go with the syringe. how damaging it to so late in the trial say, never mind, we're going to go with this approach? >> well, i think it's all going to depend on the closing argument. if you focus the jury, and i assume that what the defense is going to do here is they're going to say, look, this isn't a licensing hearing. this is an administrative procedure to revoke his license. that's a different standard. here, it's beyond a reasonable
doubt. here you have to focus on the jury instruction, the jury instruction said, did it cause, was a natural consequence? that's the language. you'll see the jury focus on if this was the natural and probable consequence of what dr. murray did, and did that reasonably cause michael jackson's death. if the answer to that is yes, he's going to be found guilty. if the answer is that something else intervened, something else broke that chain of causation, as they like to say in the law, then the answer is not guilty. >> and the cardiologist we heard from, he also said, the jury should find dr. murray guilty, even if they accept the idea that jackson himself self-administered the fatal dose, saying that the doctor never was reckless in leaving drugs anywhere that close to his patient. does he have a point? >> well, the doctor makes a very compelling point, and some of the examples he was giving, and you showed it in your package that started out, that it's a kin to leaving a baby on the table, so to speak, and then walking away, you never know what's going to happen.
in the sense that not that michael was a baby, but that once you put somebody under, you're in a very risky situation. the doctor assumes all responsibility for that. he's not only, so to speak, the surgeon, but also the anesthesiologist and the cardiologist, all rolled up into one, and it's like everybody had left you in the operating room. that clearly, to me, is going to be the prosecution's argument at the end, is we don't care if you say that he just deviated from the standard of care once, twice, three times. six separate times he deviated from the standard of care. that's what caused the death. this was a very subtle, at the same time, in-your-face attack on dr. murray today by this expert. not only did he outline all the various ways, but he also painted a portrait of why the failure to abide by the standard of care could have caused the death. you've noticed that the prosecution has really started to focus in on the causation, because a lot of the other evidence didn't really address that. >> mark geragos, thanks for your
insights. up next here, a frantic 911 call from inside a corn maize. it wasn't a halloween prank. the family trapped inside with their 3-week-old baby say it was a nightmare. and anderson's conversations with the brave students that face bullying at school. >> it makes me feel lonely. like there's no one else out there that's getting bully. they call me faggot, tag boy, gay boy, and gay. it's frustrating and sad at the same time. the nascar nationwi,
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back now with an in-depth look at an epidemic we've reporting on for more than a year now, bullying in schools. in minnesota's largest school district, seven students have taken their own lives in less than two years. the school district now facing a federal investigation and a lawsuit from two advocacy groups and several students. the allegation, pervasive anti-gay harassment. the students suing say the district's policy of barring teachers from talking about homosexuality jeopardizes their safety at school.
they want that policy changed. the school district in a heavily conservative area declined to speak to "360" citing the ongoing legislation, but did defend the policy to cnn back in april. >> all the students come with parents in this community, and parents have a wide range of beliefs. we serve them all. >> that's the superintendent of the school district. now our view from the front line. kyle, damien, brittany, and damon are four students who are fighting back. anderson spoke with them recently. >> do you all get called names when you walk through the halls? >> yeah. >> what sort of names? >> faggot, dyke, dumbass, ugly s ass bitch. >> people actually say that to your face? >> say it to your face or under their breath when you're walking by. >> what is this like? >> horrifying. >> it makes me feel lonely, like
there's no one out there like me that's getting bullied. they call me faggot, tag boy, gamien, gay boy, gay. >> at one point, you could name 40 kids that were bullying you. that's incredible. >> mm-hmm. >> 40 kids. >> 40. you feel like they just think you're a piece of garbage that they can just throw away. and it makes you feel powerless, weak, and defenseless. and then when you tell a teacher, they won't stop it. >> it's just stunning. to see more of anderson's interview, go to ac360.com. it's all a part of our special study to help stop the bullying epidemic. be sure to join anderson for an encore presentation of his town hall, "bullying: it stops here," that's this friday, october 14th at 8:00 and 10:00 p.m. right here on cnn. let's take one final look at some other stories making news tonight. isha sesay join us again with the "360 bulletin."
>> john, reports out of libya tonight say that one of moammar gadhafi's sons have been captured. the head of the tripoli revolutionary capital is telling cnn that he was taken after a firefight last night in moammar gadhafi's hometown of sert. a chunk of saddam hussein's buttock is about to go on the auction block. he took the chunk from the bronze statue that was toppled in 2003. he is now selling it to earn money to help injured ex-service men. and a fall adventure turned a little scary for a family in massachusetts. a couple and their two children, one a 3-week-old baby were exploring a cornfield maize when they became disoriented and it was getting dark, so they called 911. >> we thought this would be fun. instead, it's a nightmare. i'm really scared. it's really dark and we've got a 3-week-old baby. >> just relax. your husband's with you,